Playing it Dirty!
Just come across an interesting forum at Forces reunited! A book has been written by a couple of treacherous scum bags in New Zealand decrying one of their own war heroes from WW2. Sergeant Alfred Clive Hulme VC was awarded the perhaps most distinguished medal for bravery in the world for taking out 33 German snipers in eight days during the Crete campaign. His crime by these latter day Pussies of political correctness was that he ‘donned a German paratrooper’s smock, climbed up behind a nest of enemy snipers, and pretended to be part of their group."He shot the leader first, and as the other four snipers looked around to see where the shot had come from, Hulme also turned his head as if searching for the shooter," the book says’.
These arseholes who are now criticising his actions don’t live in the real world! (Where I live muggers don’t identify themselves first!) Why should it be any different the object is to win, Playing it dirty is sometimes a part of warfare, it always was. Was he supposed to say, “here I am Chaps let the contest begin, but baggsy I shoot first”, BANG “Oh you dirty bugger Jerry you got me, you shot before I was ready”! Do these twats realise the countless lives he saved by taking out those, who although in their own uniform could be equated as playing it equally dirty (themselves) in the field of armed combat. It was hardly a duel, Pistols at thirty paces and turning and firing! Or a challenging medieval Knight’s bout by two equally kitted out armoured men on horseback and may the best man win!
No the German Snipers who Sergeant Alfred Clive Hulme VC took out where also playing it dirty also, camouflaged laying in wait and picking off unsuspecting allied soldiers from their hidden positions, because that is the nature of the sniping business in warfare! Our hero showed great presence of mind and personal courage, for to get in amongst the enemy as he did was not for those who lacked his qualities. If captured he would have been shot outright for wearing the enemy’s uniform as a spy, and he knew that. Admittedly he was not in correct dress, but they were not facing each other fairly (but what is fair in warfare?), the Germans were not an ATTACKING FORCE on this occasion but BUSHWACKING ASSASINS!
One of the scumbags is
These arseholes who are now criticising his actions don’t live in the real world! (Where I live muggers don’t identify themselves first!) Why should it be any different the object is to win, Playing it dirty is sometimes a part of warfare, it always was. Was he supposed to say, “here I am Chaps let the contest begin, but baggsy I shoot first”, BANG “Oh you dirty bugger Jerry you got me, you shot before I was ready”! Do these twats realise the countless lives he saved by taking out those, who although in their own uniform could be equated as playing it equally dirty (themselves) in the field of armed combat. It was hardly a duel, Pistols at thirty paces and turning and firing! Or a challenging medieval Knight’s bout by two equally kitted out armoured men on horseback and may the best man win!
No the German Snipers who Sergeant Alfred Clive Hulme VC took out where also playing it dirty also, camouflaged laying in wait and picking off unsuspecting allied soldiers from their hidden positions, because that is the nature of the sniping business in warfare! Our hero showed great presence of mind and personal courage, for to get in amongst the enemy as he did was not for those who lacked his qualities. If captured he would have been shot outright for wearing the enemy’s uniform as a spy, and he knew that. Admittedly he was not in correct dress, but they were not facing each other fairly (but what is fair in warfare?), the Germans were not an ATTACKING FORCE on this occasion but BUSHWACKING ASSASINS!
One of the scumbags is
'Lt Col Glyn Harper, a professor at the New Zealand army’s Military Studies Institute, who co-authored the book, In the Face of the Enemy, said that on one occasion Sgt Hulme donned a German paratrooper’s smock, climbed up behind a nest of enemy snipers, and pretended to be part of their group. Other scumbags are academics have supported the book’s claims. Peter Wills, the deputy director of the Centre for Peace Studies at Auckland University, said Sgt Hulme’s actions were "unsanctioned murder".He told the Sunday Star-Times that the New Zealand government should apologise to the families of the Germans he killed. Bill Hodge, associate professor of law at Auckland University, said killing enemy soldiers while wearing their uniform was "prima facie a war crime".Sgt Hulme died in 1982. His daughter, Anita, said accusing him of war crimes was "a terrible thing to bring up".His VC is on display in the army’s national museum at its headquarters in Waiouru'.
This book by two military historians says that, in winning his VC, Sgt Hulme committed "acts of perfidy" under international law
Sniping is a dirty business as a link from the followings shows, an American WW2 GI is shot in the head while manning a machine gun on a balcony, his buddy is crawling over to him on the floor. Someone has to go out and man that machine gun again knowing that the sniper is out there!
These are real photos so beware!!!
Update June 4th 2007
Just taken out the links to these photos, to many fucking foreign Ghouls peeking in and not out of empthy! Fuck em, says The Sparky
The critics of the VC hero seem to have forgot the object is to kill before the enemy kills YOU!
See what others think!
http://www.forcesreunited.org.uk/forum/displaytopic.asp?T=8478
Pete HughesMaster PosterRegistered: 11/12/2002Posts: 807Service: ArmyStatus: Online
VC winner branded a war criminalNever heard so much Cr*p in my life,the man’s a hero.A ruse that helped to win a soldier the Victoria Cross during the Second World War was a "war crime" and New Zealand should apologise to the families of the snipers he killed, it was claimed yesterday.Alfred Clive Hulme, the father of Denny Hulme, the late world motor racing champion, was awarded the VC for bravery in killing 33 German snipers over eight days during the Battle of Crete in 1941. He returned home a hero to the town of Nelson.But a new book by two military historians says that, in winning his VC, Sgt Hulme committed "acts of perfidy" under international law.Lt Col Glyn Harper, a professor at the New Zealand army’s Military Studies Institute, who co-authored the book, In the Face of the Enemy, said that on one occasion Sgt Hulme donned a German paratrooper’s smock, climbed up behind a nest of enemy snipers, and pretended to be part of their group."He shot the leader first, and as the other four snipers looked around to see where the shot had come from, Hulme also turned his head as if searching for the shooter," the book says."Then he shot and killed two more." He shot the other two as they tried to leave."Hulme deserved the VC for his outstanding bravery, but he shouldn’t have done what he did in disguising himself."Other academics have supported the book’s claims. Peter Wills, the deputy director of the Centre for Peace Studies at Auckland University, said Sgt Hulme’s actions were "unsanctioned murder".He told the Sunday Star-Times that the New Zealand government should apologise to the families of the Germans he killed. Bill Hodge, associate professor of law at Auckland University, said killing enemy soldiers while wearing their uniform was "prima facie a war crime".Sgt Hulme died in 1982. His daughter, Anita, said accusing him of war crimes was "a terrible thing to bring up".His VC is on display in the army’s national museum at its headquarters in Waiouru.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.
10/04/2006 10:28:42
Teresa Johnson nee Mc MonagleMaster PosterRegistered: 17/11/2005Posts: 520Service: RAFStatus: Offline
VC Winner branded criminalI agree with you Pete - what a load of old tosh..what he did to get in amongst that group of would-be assassins was brilliant! I mean how cool headed was that!! But if the idiots are going down this road then they will have to take every case like this into consideration - that’s sheer madness.Does this mean others, like say, Sergeant Yorke of WW1 re-known, will lose his honours because he imitated the sound of a turkey to make his target look up from hiding?What about the naturalized German /Americans who infiltrated the GI troop lines and caused misdirection, mayhem and murder under the guise of American uniform eh? what about bringing all that lot to justice??The ones who mixed in amongst POW’s to spy?Japanese who called out from no-man’s land pretending to be wounded GI’s? - and the Navajo Code Talker who disguised himself to get into the Jap HQ tent and killed the enemy to get to a radio?The list is endless and doesn’t touch the Navy or Air Force!! The end justifies the means and I never heard or read of any enemy standing up and declaring himself before killing. The ’domino effect’ of killing 33 snipers means that every one of us has benefited from this man’s heroics, how many families were spared that dreaded telegram from the War Office??The whole thing is madness, sheer madness! If they are so high minded how come they even THOUGHT of persecuting the Jews let alone murdering 6 million - where were their moral standards then? I am just so angry at the moment, at the sheer injustice and stupidity of it all, I’m not thinking rationally.All I can think of is his family because if I feel this angry on their behalf then how can they cope?? Teresa
10/04/2006 12:45:06
Pete HughesMaster PosterRegistered: 11/12/2002Posts: 807Service: ArmyStatus: Online
Lt Col Glyn HarperThis muppet should be stripped of his rank.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.
10/04/2006 13:12:50
Colin RossSuper PosterRegistered: 12/11/2004Posts: 342Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Surely the worst were those rsoles disguised in Staff uniforms behind our lines who watched as hundreds of thousands of British & Commonwealth soldiers were murdered by their orders,Complete BolloxNext they will be trying to disown Guy Gibson for enviromental damage to the fish in Dams
10/04/2006 13:16:19
David StevensRegistered: 31/10/2004Posts: Service: RAFStatus: Offline
It says it all when you read that onr of these morons works in the ’Peace Studies’ Department of a University. We’ve all met them. Degree in Origami and Underwater Basket Weaving and knit all their own frocks! I spent 3 weeks in New Zealand last year and found the Kiwi’s to be great people. I would imagine that these moronic sub-humans are getting a good deal of grief from the real people over there.
10/04/2006 15:07:31
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC HERO So im future conflicts, the rules of engagment, will be drawn up by, white flag waving loonys and you will have to identify to the enemy by, rank, name, and number, and declare, i am going to shoot at you old chap hope you do-aaarrrggghhh!!!!, you rotten swine you deaded me!
fitgun
10/04/2006 16:19:51
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
VC HeroSo Leonard - your a goons fan like me! The idiots who try to denigrate our heroes nearly always wait (as this one seems to have done) until the hero is dead, before attacking them. There is no way anyone should apologise for this brave soldiers action. As the newspaper article said, he saved countless allied lives with his daring action. Better tell the descendants of Col. J.R.M.Chard VC(Rorkesd Drift), to watch out, they could become a target too.
11/04/2006 13:44:12
Martin SlyperValued MemberRegistered: 19/01/2003Posts: 2Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC winner = war criminalWhat bull. Has Lt Col Glyn Harper never heard of ruse de guerre. Obviously he is one of the modern politically correct pen pushers, who have no idea about the brutal reality of war. PEOPLE ARE KILLED!!! How can Sgt Hulme have commited acts of treachery or treason, when he was only doing his job, killing the enemy. The fact our gallant Sgt use his brain, and a brilliant trick of war, to eliminate the enermy is highly commendable, the Germans would have done the same if the situation had of arose.
17/04/2006 23:32:58
David Lewis PritchardRegistered: 08/03/2006Posts: Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC Branded a war criminalTo brand this hero as a war criminal is absurd. It suggests that anyone involved in covert operations should likewise be branded. What nonsense!
18/04/2006 08:46:31
colum dohertySuper Master PosterRegistered: 25/04/2005Posts: 1297Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC winner branded a war criminal -i agree wholeheartedly with what has been said on this subject - i would only had - how do the author and co authors of this book know exactly what happened - no one was left alive to tell the tale - god knows how many lives were saved by the selfless action of this brave man - anyway why bring the subject up after all these years - i suppose money had a hand in it as always
live long and prosper
John CandlerRegistered: 20/05/2005Posts: Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Sgt Hulme VCI see that I am not alone in being very angry at the recent defamation of the New Zealand recipient of the Victoria Cross in respect of his heroic action during World War II.It appears from the so called historians writings that it was quite in order for the "hidden" snipers to kill allied troops but not so for allied troops to take action to kill enemy snipers. Have these "historians" gone mad? They will be criticising the members of the French Resistance and members of the SOE next.I think it is wrong to review the events of both World Wars from a modern context things have changed rapidly since 1945 when we were freed from the terrors of the latter war - as have our ideas of what is and what is not acceptable. Actions in the two wars, if reviewed, must be looked at in the context of the time they took place.New Zealand should NOT apologise for Sgt Hulme VC rather it would be fitting to raise two fingers to the "historians" by putting on a function in memory of Sgt Hulme.Regards,John C.
18/04/2006 09:34:59
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Sgt Hulme VCRather appropriate that Lt Colonel G Harper was made a colonel - the man is obviously a nut (kernal)
18/04/2006 15:06:40
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC HERODo i detect the smell of filthy lucre, and not the smell of sheep sh-t!, could it be that the university professor`s are digging around in the enormous pile`s of sheep sh-t they have in NZ (there are more sheep than humans in NZ), For as much free publicity for their waste of paper book as they can find?, not many copies sold perhaps!, Len Copsey
fitgun
18/04/2006 19:54:48
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Vc HeroJust wondering - How many medals for valour, gallantry, or heroism has the said Lt. Col got?
19/04/2006 12:39:54
Martin SlyperValued MemberRegistered: 19/01/2003Posts: 2Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC heroi assume that our local friendly Lt Col Harper would accuse people such as Peter Churhill, Odette Sansom and all the other excedingly brave souls who served with the SOE in France of being war criminals for they must be guilty of perfidery etc, etc. It would be nice to hear his comments on their exploits.
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
QUEEN VICTORIAGo to the National Archive site and download the royal warrant setting up the VC medal, FOR MERITORIUOS DISTINCTION, the warrant sets out the critera for what it should be awarded for. It is 9 pages and is a free download, i am sure QUEEN VICTORIA would have said "WE ARE NOT AMUSED"!, and added "BY THIS NZ SHEEP SH-T". LEN
See what others think!
http://www.forcesreunited.org.uk/forum/displaytopic.asp?T=8478
Pete HughesMaster PosterRegistered: 11/12/2002Posts: 807Service: ArmyStatus: Online
VC winner branded a war criminalNever heard so much Cr*p in my life,the man’s a hero.A ruse that helped to win a soldier the Victoria Cross during the Second World War was a "war crime" and New Zealand should apologise to the families of the snipers he killed, it was claimed yesterday.Alfred Clive Hulme, the father of Denny Hulme, the late world motor racing champion, was awarded the VC for bravery in killing 33 German snipers over eight days during the Battle of Crete in 1941. He returned home a hero to the town of Nelson.But a new book by two military historians says that, in winning his VC, Sgt Hulme committed "acts of perfidy" under international law.Lt Col Glyn Harper, a professor at the New Zealand army’s Military Studies Institute, who co-authored the book, In the Face of the Enemy, said that on one occasion Sgt Hulme donned a German paratrooper’s smock, climbed up behind a nest of enemy snipers, and pretended to be part of their group."He shot the leader first, and as the other four snipers looked around to see where the shot had come from, Hulme also turned his head as if searching for the shooter," the book says."Then he shot and killed two more." He shot the other two as they tried to leave."Hulme deserved the VC for his outstanding bravery, but he shouldn’t have done what he did in disguising himself."Other academics have supported the book’s claims. Peter Wills, the deputy director of the Centre for Peace Studies at Auckland University, said Sgt Hulme’s actions were "unsanctioned murder".He told the Sunday Star-Times that the New Zealand government should apologise to the families of the Germans he killed. Bill Hodge, associate professor of law at Auckland University, said killing enemy soldiers while wearing their uniform was "prima facie a war crime".Sgt Hulme died in 1982. His daughter, Anita, said accusing him of war crimes was "a terrible thing to bring up".His VC is on display in the army’s national museum at its headquarters in Waiouru.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.
10/04/2006 10:28:42
Teresa Johnson nee Mc MonagleMaster PosterRegistered: 17/11/2005Posts: 520Service: RAFStatus: Offline
VC Winner branded criminalI agree with you Pete - what a load of old tosh..what he did to get in amongst that group of would-be assassins was brilliant! I mean how cool headed was that!! But if the idiots are going down this road then they will have to take every case like this into consideration - that’s sheer madness.Does this mean others, like say, Sergeant Yorke of WW1 re-known, will lose his honours because he imitated the sound of a turkey to make his target look up from hiding?What about the naturalized German /Americans who infiltrated the GI troop lines and caused misdirection, mayhem and murder under the guise of American uniform eh? what about bringing all that lot to justice??The ones who mixed in amongst POW’s to spy?Japanese who called out from no-man’s land pretending to be wounded GI’s? - and the Navajo Code Talker who disguised himself to get into the Jap HQ tent and killed the enemy to get to a radio?The list is endless and doesn’t touch the Navy or Air Force!! The end justifies the means and I never heard or read of any enemy standing up and declaring himself before killing. The ’domino effect’ of killing 33 snipers means that every one of us has benefited from this man’s heroics, how many families were spared that dreaded telegram from the War Office??The whole thing is madness, sheer madness! If they are so high minded how come they even THOUGHT of persecuting the Jews let alone murdering 6 million - where were their moral standards then? I am just so angry at the moment, at the sheer injustice and stupidity of it all, I’m not thinking rationally.All I can think of is his family because if I feel this angry on their behalf then how can they cope?? Teresa
10/04/2006 12:45:06
Pete HughesMaster PosterRegistered: 11/12/2002Posts: 807Service: ArmyStatus: Online
Lt Col Glyn HarperThis muppet should be stripped of his rank.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.
10/04/2006 13:12:50
Colin RossSuper PosterRegistered: 12/11/2004Posts: 342Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Surely the worst were those rsoles disguised in Staff uniforms behind our lines who watched as hundreds of thousands of British & Commonwealth soldiers were murdered by their orders,Complete BolloxNext they will be trying to disown Guy Gibson for enviromental damage to the fish in Dams
10/04/2006 13:16:19
David StevensRegistered: 31/10/2004Posts: Service: RAFStatus: Offline
It says it all when you read that onr of these morons works in the ’Peace Studies’ Department of a University. We’ve all met them. Degree in Origami and Underwater Basket Weaving and knit all their own frocks! I spent 3 weeks in New Zealand last year and found the Kiwi’s to be great people. I would imagine that these moronic sub-humans are getting a good deal of grief from the real people over there.
10/04/2006 15:07:31
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC HERO So im future conflicts, the rules of engagment, will be drawn up by, white flag waving loonys and you will have to identify to the enemy by, rank, name, and number, and declare, i am going to shoot at you old chap hope you do-aaarrrggghhh!!!!, you rotten swine you deaded me!
fitgun
10/04/2006 16:19:51
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
VC HeroSo Leonard - your a goons fan like me! The idiots who try to denigrate our heroes nearly always wait (as this one seems to have done) until the hero is dead, before attacking them. There is no way anyone should apologise for this brave soldiers action. As the newspaper article said, he saved countless allied lives with his daring action. Better tell the descendants of Col. J.R.M.Chard VC(Rorkesd Drift), to watch out, they could become a target too.
11/04/2006 13:44:12
Martin SlyperValued MemberRegistered: 19/01/2003Posts: 2Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC winner = war criminalWhat bull. Has Lt Col Glyn Harper never heard of ruse de guerre. Obviously he is one of the modern politically correct pen pushers, who have no idea about the brutal reality of war. PEOPLE ARE KILLED!!! How can Sgt Hulme have commited acts of treachery or treason, when he was only doing his job, killing the enemy. The fact our gallant Sgt use his brain, and a brilliant trick of war, to eliminate the enermy is highly commendable, the Germans would have done the same if the situation had of arose.
17/04/2006 23:32:58
David Lewis PritchardRegistered: 08/03/2006Posts: Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC Branded a war criminalTo brand this hero as a war criminal is absurd. It suggests that anyone involved in covert operations should likewise be branded. What nonsense!
18/04/2006 08:46:31
colum dohertySuper Master PosterRegistered: 25/04/2005Posts: 1297Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC winner branded a war criminal -i agree wholeheartedly with what has been said on this subject - i would only had - how do the author and co authors of this book know exactly what happened - no one was left alive to tell the tale - god knows how many lives were saved by the selfless action of this brave man - anyway why bring the subject up after all these years - i suppose money had a hand in it as always
live long and prosper
John CandlerRegistered: 20/05/2005Posts: Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Sgt Hulme VCI see that I am not alone in being very angry at the recent defamation of the New Zealand recipient of the Victoria Cross in respect of his heroic action during World War II.It appears from the so called historians writings that it was quite in order for the "hidden" snipers to kill allied troops but not so for allied troops to take action to kill enemy snipers. Have these "historians" gone mad? They will be criticising the members of the French Resistance and members of the SOE next.I think it is wrong to review the events of both World Wars from a modern context things have changed rapidly since 1945 when we were freed from the terrors of the latter war - as have our ideas of what is and what is not acceptable. Actions in the two wars, if reviewed, must be looked at in the context of the time they took place.New Zealand should NOT apologise for Sgt Hulme VC rather it would be fitting to raise two fingers to the "historians" by putting on a function in memory of Sgt Hulme.Regards,John C.
18/04/2006 09:34:59
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Sgt Hulme VCRather appropriate that Lt Colonel G Harper was made a colonel - the man is obviously a nut (kernal)
18/04/2006 15:06:40
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC HERODo i detect the smell of filthy lucre, and not the smell of sheep sh-t!, could it be that the university professor`s are digging around in the enormous pile`s of sheep sh-t they have in NZ (there are more sheep than humans in NZ), For as much free publicity for their waste of paper book as they can find?, not many copies sold perhaps!, Len Copsey
fitgun
18/04/2006 19:54:48
Rev. Roger PerrySuper Master PosterRegistered: 30/09/2003Posts: 1295Service: RAFStatus: Offline
Vc HeroJust wondering - How many medals for valour, gallantry, or heroism has the said Lt. Col got?
19/04/2006 12:39:54
Martin SlyperValued MemberRegistered: 19/01/2003Posts: 2Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
VC heroi assume that our local friendly Lt Col Harper would accuse people such as Peter Churhill, Odette Sansom and all the other excedingly brave souls who served with the SOE in France of being war criminals for they must be guilty of perfidery etc, etc. It would be nice to hear his comments on their exploits.
leonard copseyValued MemberRegistered: 05/12/2005Posts: 11Service: ArmyStatus: Offline
QUEEN VICTORIAGo to the National Archive site and download the royal warrant setting up the VC medal, FOR MERITORIUOS DISTINCTION, the warrant sets out the critera for what it should be awarded for. It is 9 pages and is a free download, i am sure QUEEN VICTORIA would have said "WE ARE NOT AMUSED"!, and added "BY THIS NZ SHEEP SH-T". LEN
posted by The Sparky at Thursday, April 20, 2006
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